Listen now (73 min) | In part 2 of my interview with Helen Joyce, we talk about the long term deleterious effects of puberty blockers and the FDA’s original usage and indication. We compare and contrast why America now has 300 “gender affirming” clinics (and counting), and why Britain only has ONE called Tavistock.
Imagine a world where you could take the ability of a parent to make medical decisions for their children based on studies that do not exist. This is exactly what is happening. I don't mind two people working out details of a complex subject, but stick to the facts. Claiming you have "lots of studies" that show that nearly all trans children grow out of GD requires citation which Helen will never provide because they do not exist.
I transitioned 24 years ago. I'm a business woman, a mother, a wife to my husband, and I also happen to be trans. I'm a conservative person who grew up in a conservative family. I'm not an activist,. I don't have time to deal with this but I have to because the lies and exaggerations have gotten way out of control. I believe every person is entitled to a voice and an opinion. Where I draw the line is exaggeration and lies. Your dealing with a very marginalized community. You don't owe them acceptance, but you do owe them a fair shake which means making your argument by sticking to the truth.
I've never been more offended by a single person more than I have by Helen Joyce (and I have met some horrible people). Yes, I have read her book (unfortunately). Aside from the unusually high amount of grammatical and spelling errors, there is also very little to no citation for any of her claims. Nearly all her claims are on a "trust me" basis.
I appreciate the chance to give truth to her falsehoods. Here are her major claims:
Claim: Transwomen have a sexual perversion called AGP: FALSE AGP Doesn't exist. It's not a medical diagnosis. Has been thoroughly debunked by every medical institution in the world. Has been widely condemned as a way for anti-trans activists to defame the trans-community.
Claim: Detransitioners are on the rise: FALSE For all the reports and concerns, no organization has been able to prove (with actual facts) that transition regret is higher than 1%. I work with a local trans organization that helps trans kids. Very few transition. And the ones that do go through an average of 5-7 years of constant therapy before they will ever have access to medical interventions. Are there bad therapists that do the wrong thing? Yes. Are there bad doctors that do the wrong things? Yes. But at 1% , even with the mistakes being worked out that is one of most successful treatments for an acute situation in medicine.
Claim: Small percentage of transwomen get genital surgery: FALSE 9000 MTF operations were performed in 2021 in the US, even more in 2020, and more the year before that. Most who don't get surgery do not because of financial reasons.
Claim: Transpeople believe they have a gendered soul: FALSE, transpeople have a sexual identity meaning they identify with a sex opposite of their perceived biological sex which is why they "affirm that sex" by changing their body. The term, gender identity only exists as a way to legally describe transgender people to protect their rights.
Claim: Being trans is a form of homophobia: I can't believe I have to refute this. No family would rather have a trans child over a gay child. Let me say this very obvious truth again. No family would rather have a trans child over a gay child. This assumption defies all logic and show a total lack of touch with reality.
Claim: Transwomen want to force their way into trans-sports: Many trans people including me wrote letters to major sports organizations in support of women in sports and explained how transwomen that go through a male puberty will maintain an advantage. It was this testimony and not pressure from people like Helen that made the difference and changed things. Just because we didn't paper twitter with transphobic attacks on trans-athletes does not mean we were complicit or endorsed anything. We just know how to handle things like this and personal honest testimony is much more powerful than angry tweets directed at children.
Claim: There are more than 300 gender clinics in the US. False, there are 100 clinics across the US or aprox 2 per state. In reality, many states dont have any.
Claim: Puberty resolves GD. If that were the case, adult transpeople would not exist. I seriously can't believe I have to dispute this very obvious fallacy. Can people that didn't really have GD go through puberty and realize that they are not indeed gender dysphoric? Yes. Which is why it's important to allow a child to advance to the start of puberty and talk about how it's making them feel.
Claim: Puberty Blockers are dangerous: Most transpeople are not a fan of PB's. If you have a child that is diagnosed with GD at age 4, then goes through 8 years of therapy and remains consistent through out, then at that point, it should be up to the the medical care professionals and the parents to make a decision to either transition or not. It should never be up to someone like Helen.
Claim: Doctors tell trans girls that they can get pregnant. Huh? I laughed out loud with this one. Do I really have to debunk this? Seriously? Not wasting my time with this obvious lie.
Claim: Transpeople say that suicide is guaranteed if they can't transition. FALSE No one says that. People with GD do suffer and suicidal ideation is common but no one knows exact numbers or the follow through rates. The danger is for parents that listen to Helen over their child. If your child is suicidal, listen to them and your doctor. DO NOT LISTEN TO ANYONE who tells you to ignore it. Your child is unique. They are not a statistic.
Claim: Affirmation therapy model does not include exploratory therapy. FALSE, Affirmation therapy always includes exploratory therapy. The only affirmation involved is giving the child space to explore.
Claim: All trans kids are gay kids that can't accept it. I seriously can't believe that I have to point to the millions of trans people who exist in the world that clearly debunk this claim. Again, GD has nothing to do with sexuality or sex. GD is about a mind body disconnect. Treatment should always revolve around trying to connect the two with a priority on the least invasive solution but open access to all trans medicine along with total freedom for people to make the best decision they can.
It's interesting to listen to all of these podcasts and watch cisgender people work through these complex subjects. In essence, Transgender people have just "come out" as a community. And the world is going through the same stages of acceptance as individual people do. The first step is to deny. We are at the denial stage. Anyone willing to deny that someone can be born with a biologically female wired brain and the body of a man is being platformed right now to fulfill that need for denial. So while people like Helen are very frustrating and regressive, I know it's a necessary evil to pave the path to a final acceptance.
Claim: Irreversible Damage, Abigail Shrier. Everything you need to know about Abigail is that the person that came forward to her was a legal adult (college student) and she used the picture of a 4 year old on the front of her book. When Joe Rogan (Joe Rogan Experience Podcast) asked her about this, she sheepishly snickered and shrugged, saying the publisher pulled that sneaky bait and switch. She also claims to have talked to transchildren, but cannot tell anyone how many or who they were. No transpeople have come forward. She did talk to parents. Still with all the prophesizing of trans-regret, the percentage is still below 1%. This is a number that has not changed in 50 years.
Claim: Transgender people don't know what it's like to be scared to walk to your car at night. So here is a challenge for you Joey. Put on a dress, makeup, and heels. Go to a straight bar, then walk to your car at midnight and see how you feel. Think you will feel safe as a transwoman?
Another side note. No woman has ever been raped or sexually assaulted in the 60 years that fully transitioned transexuals have been sharing single sex spaces with women. Not. One. Time. So if that is the case, then why the panic? If you say that self-ID changes that, I agree and fair point, lets make some requirements. But Helen doesn't want that. She just wants a blanket ban on all transwomen no matter how that woman has transitioned. Thankfully the world has learned that segregating based on baseless paranoia is just straight bigotry.
Things that Helen is trying to accomplish:
Exclude transwomen from single sex spaces regardless of transition level
Block transgender children's access to medicine and treatments
Stop the world from classifying transwomen as women
Eliminating language that is used to grant rights (like rights to work) that effectively will define transgender people out of existence.
What she supports:
Trangender people being able to walk down the street without being attacked or murdered (thanks for that generous support, Helen). She considers this as being supportive of transgender people.
Really enjoying the interviews Joey - have listened to three in a row today!!!
Thank you, sir!
Imagine a world where you could take the ability of a parent to make medical decisions for their children based on studies that do not exist. This is exactly what is happening. I don't mind two people working out details of a complex subject, but stick to the facts. Claiming you have "lots of studies" that show that nearly all trans children grow out of GD requires citation which Helen will never provide because they do not exist.
I transitioned 24 years ago. I'm a business woman, a mother, a wife to my husband, and I also happen to be trans. I'm a conservative person who grew up in a conservative family. I'm not an activist,. I don't have time to deal with this but I have to because the lies and exaggerations have gotten way out of control. I believe every person is entitled to a voice and an opinion. Where I draw the line is exaggeration and lies. Your dealing with a very marginalized community. You don't owe them acceptance, but you do owe them a fair shake which means making your argument by sticking to the truth.
I've never been more offended by a single person more than I have by Helen Joyce (and I have met some horrible people). Yes, I have read her book (unfortunately). Aside from the unusually high amount of grammatical and spelling errors, there is also very little to no citation for any of her claims. Nearly all her claims are on a "trust me" basis.
I appreciate the chance to give truth to her falsehoods. Here are her major claims:
Claim: Transwomen have a sexual perversion called AGP: FALSE AGP Doesn't exist. It's not a medical diagnosis. Has been thoroughly debunked by every medical institution in the world. Has been widely condemned as a way for anti-trans activists to defame the trans-community.
Claim: Detransitioners are on the rise: FALSE For all the reports and concerns, no organization has been able to prove (with actual facts) that transition regret is higher than 1%. I work with a local trans organization that helps trans kids. Very few transition. And the ones that do go through an average of 5-7 years of constant therapy before they will ever have access to medical interventions. Are there bad therapists that do the wrong thing? Yes. Are there bad doctors that do the wrong things? Yes. But at 1% , even with the mistakes being worked out that is one of most successful treatments for an acute situation in medicine.
Claim: Small percentage of transwomen get genital surgery: FALSE 9000 MTF operations were performed in 2021 in the US, even more in 2020, and more the year before that. Most who don't get surgery do not because of financial reasons.
Claim: Transpeople believe they have a gendered soul: FALSE, transpeople have a sexual identity meaning they identify with a sex opposite of their perceived biological sex which is why they "affirm that sex" by changing their body. The term, gender identity only exists as a way to legally describe transgender people to protect their rights.
Claim: Being trans is a form of homophobia: I can't believe I have to refute this. No family would rather have a trans child over a gay child. Let me say this very obvious truth again. No family would rather have a trans child over a gay child. This assumption defies all logic and show a total lack of touch with reality.
Claim: Transwomen want to force their way into trans-sports: Many trans people including me wrote letters to major sports organizations in support of women in sports and explained how transwomen that go through a male puberty will maintain an advantage. It was this testimony and not pressure from people like Helen that made the difference and changed things. Just because we didn't paper twitter with transphobic attacks on trans-athletes does not mean we were complicit or endorsed anything. We just know how to handle things like this and personal honest testimony is much more powerful than angry tweets directed at children.
Claim: There are more than 300 gender clinics in the US. False, there are 100 clinics across the US or aprox 2 per state. In reality, many states dont have any.
Claim: Puberty resolves GD. If that were the case, adult transpeople would not exist. I seriously can't believe I have to dispute this very obvious fallacy. Can people that didn't really have GD go through puberty and realize that they are not indeed gender dysphoric? Yes. Which is why it's important to allow a child to advance to the start of puberty and talk about how it's making them feel.
Claim: Puberty Blockers are dangerous: Most transpeople are not a fan of PB's. If you have a child that is diagnosed with GD at age 4, then goes through 8 years of therapy and remains consistent through out, then at that point, it should be up to the the medical care professionals and the parents to make a decision to either transition or not. It should never be up to someone like Helen.
Claim: Doctors tell trans girls that they can get pregnant. Huh? I laughed out loud with this one. Do I really have to debunk this? Seriously? Not wasting my time with this obvious lie.
Claim: Transpeople say that suicide is guaranteed if they can't transition. FALSE No one says that. People with GD do suffer and suicidal ideation is common but no one knows exact numbers or the follow through rates. The danger is for parents that listen to Helen over their child. If your child is suicidal, listen to them and your doctor. DO NOT LISTEN TO ANYONE who tells you to ignore it. Your child is unique. They are not a statistic.
Claim: Affirmation therapy model does not include exploratory therapy. FALSE, Affirmation therapy always includes exploratory therapy. The only affirmation involved is giving the child space to explore.
Claim: All trans kids are gay kids that can't accept it. I seriously can't believe that I have to point to the millions of trans people who exist in the world that clearly debunk this claim. Again, GD has nothing to do with sexuality or sex. GD is about a mind body disconnect. Treatment should always revolve around trying to connect the two with a priority on the least invasive solution but open access to all trans medicine along with total freedom for people to make the best decision they can.
It's interesting to listen to all of these podcasts and watch cisgender people work through these complex subjects. In essence, Transgender people have just "come out" as a community. And the world is going through the same stages of acceptance as individual people do. The first step is to deny. We are at the denial stage. Anyone willing to deny that someone can be born with a biologically female wired brain and the body of a man is being platformed right now to fulfill that need for denial. So while people like Helen are very frustrating and regressive, I know it's a necessary evil to pave the path to a final acceptance.
Claim: Irreversible Damage, Abigail Shrier. Everything you need to know about Abigail is that the person that came forward to her was a legal adult (college student) and she used the picture of a 4 year old on the front of her book. When Joe Rogan (Joe Rogan Experience Podcast) asked her about this, she sheepishly snickered and shrugged, saying the publisher pulled that sneaky bait and switch. She also claims to have talked to transchildren, but cannot tell anyone how many or who they were. No transpeople have come forward. She did talk to parents. Still with all the prophesizing of trans-regret, the percentage is still below 1%. This is a number that has not changed in 50 years.
Claim: Transgender people don't know what it's like to be scared to walk to your car at night. So here is a challenge for you Joey. Put on a dress, makeup, and heels. Go to a straight bar, then walk to your car at midnight and see how you feel. Think you will feel safe as a transwoman?
Another side note. No woman has ever been raped or sexually assaulted in the 60 years that fully transitioned transexuals have been sharing single sex spaces with women. Not. One. Time. So if that is the case, then why the panic? If you say that self-ID changes that, I agree and fair point, lets make some requirements. But Helen doesn't want that. She just wants a blanket ban on all transwomen no matter how that woman has transitioned. Thankfully the world has learned that segregating based on baseless paranoia is just straight bigotry.
Things that Helen is trying to accomplish:
Exclude transwomen from single sex spaces regardless of transition level
Block transgender children's access to medicine and treatments
Stop the world from classifying transwomen as women
Eliminating language that is used to grant rights (like rights to work) that effectively will define transgender people out of existence.
What she supports:
Trangender people being able to walk down the street without being attacked or murdered (thanks for that generous support, Helen). She considers this as being supportive of transgender people.
Thanks for the opportunity to respond Joey.
Great interview Joey. An extremely enlightning discussion about an incredibly complex issue. Keep it up my friend.